Forum:  Encounters+                     Section:  Earth Chgs/Prophecy
Subj :  Water Supplies
To   :  Chris Malcheski, 71232,360      Sunday, March 26, 1995  3:09:24 AM
From :  Martha McLemore, 73135,1243     #49555

Chris,

I think if we were to compile a library list, that in itself would be
helpful.

Certainly, our individual needs would depend on our location, but everyone
should know how to build shelter, grow and preserve their own food, find
and protect their water sources, basic principles of defense, emergency
first aid (including childbirth), edible and medicinal plant
identification, toxic plants and animals...the stuff all our ancestors
knew.

I don't mean that each one of us needs to know all of this on our own (wish
I did, though), but that groups of us need to know or have access to the
info.

Guess it wouldn't hurt to have a psychiatrist or two on hand, either, since
we're considering such calamitous changes taking place.  

I'm looking for instructions on how to turn my old fat tire, no gears
bicycle into an emergency generator.  Can you help with that?

I have books on building your own home, septic system, solar collectors;
herb identification and uses; emergency medicine, anatomy and physiology;
private security techniques; chemistry for klutzes; midwifery; building
rustic furniture; clothing manufacturing, from sheep to shawl as they say
around here; auto mechanics (VW bus and Beetles '65 through '72 models -
hey, you never know when that might help!)

I'm no expert, either, but I don't think that's what will matter if we are
faced with catastrophe.  I think it is important to know as much as you can
to keep yourself and loved ones alive and safe.  Beyond that, know how and
where to learn what you don't know, either through books or through other
people who know what you don't.

Learn your strengths and weaknesses, learn to think critically and calmly
under pressure, learn to plan ahead...maybe take one of the Red Cross
courses in first aid or disaster preparedness...join the Weather Service's
Sky Warn watch group in your area...train yourself to lead...learn risk
assessment (well, that comes with learning to think critically and
plan)...what can you add to this list of suggestions, Chris?  Anybody?

I believe there is much we can learn from each other.  If these predictions
are valid, we'll need more than our own wits to survive; we'll need one
another.  If we share our knowledge, become prepared for something which
doesn't happen, then we still come out ahead in terms of personal growth,
as well as strenghtening our community.

I'm starting to sound like a pollyanna.  

Martha



Forum:  Encounters+                     Section:  Earth Chgs/Prophecy
Subj :  You Call This Disaster?
To   :  All                             Sunday, March 26, 1995  6:58:18 AM
From :  Chris Malcheski, 71232,360      #49588

I had another thought (oh f***ing no) for those who are fearing the coming
changes.

Consider that most people have a few 'events' each week that they look
forward to.  Dinner out, a movie, the Friday night partying for many, and
this is it.  For any given week, the sum total of a person's true enjoyment
boiled down to a few choice events that week, and that was it.  The rest of
the time is spent getting ready for work, going to work, being at work,
getting home from work, and winding down from the political life drainage
of the job.  And wishing things were different.

Take your last year on the job and erase it.  How much worse off are you?
How much more principle do you owe on your house?  On your car?  Be sure to
factor in what you've spent on clothes, eating lunch out (if you do it, it
counts), gas, car maintenance, etc.  How far ahead did that year put you?
How many choice minutes out of that past year did you actually enjoy?
.05%?

If you're like most, you survived and that was it.  You broke even and were
miserable in the process, 99% of your time wishing you were somewhere other
than where you were (as far as the quality of your life).

Most of what you earn goes to the government.  You see no benefit for most
of it.  Most of what you spend at the grocery store goes to pay the labor
unions' outrageous salaries.  The quality of the food or service is not
enhanced for this.  Most of what you spend on a car is again labor union
wages and to maintain the current power base.  You get no benefit for it.
Right now the average car can be made to get 100+ miles per gallon and have
a typical life span of 30 years.  Built in obsolescence is employed to
maintain the current power base and keep the customers locked in.  Most of
what you pay in the medical field goes to support insurance, lawsuits, and
attorneys.  You see no benefit for this; the quality of the service is not
enhanced.  I could go on forever.  Most of your existence, in one form or
another, goes into supporting the current power base and keeping it from
changing.  Enter severe Earth changes, and odds are, the value of products
and services will survive, but the current power bases, the dead weight
overhead, will not.  It probably took less than 1 year to rebuild from most
of the flood damage in the midwest, from the Northridge quake, the San
Francisco quake, etc.  Society will be up and running in no time.  People
don't fall down and just lay there and cry.  Look at reality, what happens
every time there's a disaster?  Before you know it there's little if any
evidence that it ever happened because people pick right up, rebuild, and
keep on going.

But when you eliminate the current power base, you put society in a
situation where a new power base must form.  And given this opportunity,
people are usually a whole lot more careful about setting things up.  If
your house burned to the ground, would you just dig out the old blueprints
for the old house and say "here rebuild this?"  Probably not; you'd have
your attention on all the things that you now have an opportunity to
change.  "Gee I've always wanted a skylight there; this kitchen was never
big enough, I always wanted an island there, we sure could use a wider
staircase into the basement, I want that door to open out instead of in..."
 People rebuilding the social power structures would and will do the same.
They'll be very careful about how they do it, seeing endless opportunity to
fix mistakes of the past.  Add to this the eliminated burden of having to
support the existing power bases.  When you can go to the grocery store and
not have to pay for the labor unions and the government tax rates.  It'll
be much harder to define somebody as "poor" because the poverty line will
be so far reduced.

Just some thoughts on the issue.

-- Chris

Forum:  Encounters+                     Section:  Earth Chgs/Prophecy
Subj :  Preparing for the future
To   :  Kent Lawrence, 71621,2534       Sunday, March 26, 1995 11:33:20 AM
From :  Gib, 75313,620                  #49637


Kent,

I have nothing personal against you okay.  Understand that.
We are only exploring the topic here.  Okay?
This is not a me against you thing.  At least not from my point of view.
Sometimes I adopt a particular stance in order to see how strong someone
feels about their position or whether or not they can successfully
argue it.  A strong defensible position is likely to win converts,
and I could be one of them.  So I'd like to argue with you. 

I like the sentiment that you and others have expressed regarding your
reservations about killing someone, but I'd like to ask you a few questions
about the logic you've employed.

      ... I will fight to the death those who come
      stalking in the night just to take it away!

      And just because they did not have
      the foresight or ambition to prepare in advance.

Do you realize how many people can't afford to feed their families tonight?
Do you know how few can afford a computer at present, much less a CompuServe
account?
How are these people to prepare for tomorrow when they are so busy fighting
to survive today?

Another frame of reference:

   You own a mountain-top and cabin in Northern Idaho

      "It's a big mountaintop, and I own it all above the treeline!"

   You also own:

      a '73 Dodge motorhome
      a '94 Jeep Wrangler
      a Nintendo 
      a 55-gallon drum of Calgon
      an 1876 Swedish Army rifle
      an AR-15,
      an SKS,
      a Colt 45,
      a Tokarev 9mm/.762 combo,
      along with a few others, and many, many rounds of ammunition for each.

You, in fact, own:

   "a collection of "fine" and rare guns

   just for the sake of having something my brother doesn't."
   ^^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^ ^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^


Hunh?  He ain't heavy... He's my brother.


As you point out...

   ...the sign on the old greasy-spoon says, "Dew Drop Inn."

If a lot of those people, the meek, who don't have CompuServe accounts
and aren't following this thread find their way to your mountain top,
you will then recognize the meaning behind certain behaviors attracting
certain consequences.  It is unfortunate that it takes an extreme to make
a point.  We tell the child, "Don't touch the fire."  But until the
child touches the fire, the child never knows the meaning of burn.

Kevin                           -= Kicks just keep getting harder to find =-


Forum:  CIS:ENCOUN                      Section:  Earth Chgs/Prophecy
Subj :  Preparing for the future
To   :  Gib, 75313,620


Kevin;

Apologetic opening remarks accepted.   But, none were needed.  If
you want to argue, just state your case.  If I want to argue, I'll
state mine.  No flames, just the facts, ma'am!(, no sexual remark
intended!)

My statements were not set out to start an argument with anyone.  They
were to express, lightly, some of my feelings on the matter.  Anyone
is welcome to take them or leave them; an argument will get them
nowhere, unless they (you?) are looking everywhere for reasons to
change their own minds.

If I was not clear before, let me make the statement a little clearer
now.  What I was saying was that the mountaintop is there; it is
available to all who wish to survive and who in turn wish to
contribute.  We will not have ample food and supplies for everyone,
but only for ourselves and probably only for a short time at that
(it's not THAT big an RV - 20 footer - have to get a trailer!).
Therefore the selfish attitude about protecting what is mine, i.e.,
what I brought with me to tide us over until such time as more foods
can be grown and slaughtered or harvested.

        (Aside here:  George Carlin did not refer to it as "just
stuff."  He remarked as to how somebody else's stuff is sh*t, but your
sh*t is Stuff!")

We have mostly non-perishable foodstuffs, including MRE'S and C-rat's,
water containers, lantern/generator/cookstove fuels, clothing, shelter
and medical supplies -- for us!  We already have them, not for any
apocalypse, but because we live in SE Kansas, the heart of tornado
country, and make more than one trip every year to the basement
shelter.  While there we live, not "in style" or "on easy street," but
as we would if we had to ride out a storm or bomb or any other
catastrophe for days or weeks.

The guns are there for hunting meat as well as for protection.  We
also have shotguns and .22 cal rifles for birds and small game.  We
will protect what we have with whatever means necessary; hopefully
that will mean in the same way we do now:  with padlocks, alarms and
elected or appointed guardians (police) and not having to resort to
violence ourselves.  (Although we do keep one gun, the Colt 45, in the
house, it is under lock and key on a top shelf in my study -- not
armed in a drawer by my bed:  the last thing I am going to do is play
Rambo at 3:00 in the morning and shoot my 14-year old son who just
wants an aspirin or something!)

One does not have to have a Compuserve account and be lurking on this
forum to show up, or to be welcome, if they are willing to contribute
in goods or services/work.  All we ask for is people willing to pay,
or to work, for what they expect to receive from us.  [What was the
car-window-sign of the '60's?  "Cash, grass or ass, nobody rides for
free!"]  In other words, you-all are fully welcome to "Dew Drop Inn,"
but be prepared to pay for your meal!

The mountaintop was originally purchased as a "retreat" or a place to
retire to when that time came.  It is beginning to look more and more
like a safe haven from whatever (the "TBO," the TLA I apparently
coined that Paul likes so well).  Again, originally, it still was
meant for "just us'ns," family and whatever close friends wanted to
join.  But now I have met new "friends" here on the Encounters forum,
people who are like-thinkers in the survival issue.  So I have
extended the welcome to "those of like-thinking," those who wish to
not just survive, but live harmoniously and productively together.
(Shades of 'Atlas Shrugged'?  Why not -- sounded good 30 years ago
when I last read it!)  (But I am NOT John Galt -- I just bought the
land!) 

So see, no argument needed!  These are the facts.  I have a place to
go, food, clothing, shelter, medical supplies and fuel to sustain us
for a while, and we add to it/replace it annually.  Anyone and
everyone could do the same, just buy an extra can of beans every third
trip to the grocery store, for example.  That's how we started, back
when we lived nearly hand-to-mouth.  We froze, canned and dried food
then because it was necessary to keep going on, and we continue to do
it today for the tornadoes, and will continue doing it for whatever
comes up in the future.

So, "Dew Drop Inn."  But be prepared to pay.  If you can't pay, be
prepared to work.  If you can't work, be prepared to tell a good
tall-tale!   (And I don't think you would have any trouble there!!)


Kent

Forum:  Encounters+                     Section:  Earth Chgs/Prophecy
Subj :  Preparing for the future
To   :  Kevin Gibson, 75313,620         Saturday, March 25, 1995  3:10:23 PM
From :  Melinda Henderson, 73042,2151   #49382

Kevin:

>>What kind of a world are you preparing to live, nay, exist in?<<

Bear with me here:

Rich R. asked for others' views about taking actions now to prepare for
predicted upcoming changes.

Lilith: >>and lastly lots of ammunition for your weapons.<<

Chris: >>An over committment to weapons for survival may help attract a
reason to have to use them. I have my AR-15 and about 100 rounds but my
primary plans center around never having to fire a single shot.<<

Val: >>[The Ninja] is a warrior out of necessity, not out of desire.<<

Thom: >>I think most folks...would LIKE to live in a world where deadly
force and defense of home & family was not an issue....However I also live
in a real world, where crime is more efficient than the systems that are
supposed to inhibit that force....If we lived in an ideal world, ammunition
wouldn't be needed but neither would be our prayers.<<

Rich P.: >>I suggest that you start by examining the basic needs humans
have for survival: food, water, shelter, health and love come to mind.<<

Howard: >>So does a 357 magnum and lots of ammunition, to protect the food,
water, shelter and loved ones you have hoarded. Seriously.<<

Melin: >>Absolutely. Or, in my case, a 9mm Glock.<<

Kevin: >>Guns were never the answer.<<

Thom: >>I wish you were right but survival has not gone out of vogue.<<

Charlie: >>Gosh! I never expected to hear so much gun talk on _this_
forum.<<

Chris: >>It's not a bad idea to have one [weapon] on hand in case the need
really comes up but I suppose it starts to bug me when people's entire
definition of "surviving" automatically moves to shooting others, before
any other method of surviving ahs a chance, before anything is even
known.<<

Mark: >>The most important thing will be the togetherness of the
community....Survivalists aren't going to make it. Their hording of guns
and supplies will attract others of like mind to them and the ensuing
results.<<

Chris: >>...people who 'resonate' with firepower as a means of survival
will generally have a lust for a chance to use their guns<<<

Howard: >>...the best we can hope for is that the "decent people" have
enough common sense to band together and protect what they have. Otherwise,
they will surely be selected out of the gene pool.<<

Okay...here goes:

What I've gotten from this thread is that there is a difference between
"resonating with firepower" and choosing your own personal method of
self-defense if and when the time should come. Some choose guns...some
don't. But I don't believe that those who do choose guns necessarily
attract violence.

All of my life I never *ever* entertained the idea of owning *any* kind of
gun. I was always spouting the "guns only attract other guns" philosophy.
And then I watched the LA riots happening real-time, on television. I cried
and cried as I watched the devastation slowly creep towards my old
neighborhood, feeling helpless because I no longer lived there and feared
for all of my friends who were still there. (My husband and I had been
responsible for creating and maintaining the neighborhood disaster
preparedness response team...originally focused toward earthquakes, but,
hey, riots count, too.)

Then, on the second day of rioting, I saw something on TV to which my
reaction totally flabbergasted me--I saw my friends and neighbors (many of
whom were members of the resonse team) actually defending the perimiter of
the neighborhood...with a variety of weapons. And I saw the local merchants
defending their businesses, too. And I was glad. I actually found myself
cheering for the guys on top of the Wherehouse with their automatic
weapons, defending their turf. I felt like "that's *my* Wherehouse, where I
rent *my* movies" and more power to the owners for wanting to defend what's
theirs. These people did not "attract" the violence to the area, but they
were damn well ready to defend it when it became necessary. It was a
_community_ response...not a bunch of gun enthusiasts who were "lusting" to
use their weapons. It was "decent people banding together" to protect what
they had. The residential neighborhood was not invaded and many (but not
all) of the businesses in the area were spared.

That's when I decided that maybe owning a gun and learning how to use it
was not as bad an idea as I had originally thought. It took seeing the
possibility of personal and community destruction "in living color" to wake
me up to the fact that, yes, the times they *are* a-changin'. I don't like
that, but I'm not going to be an ostrich about it, either. I loved LA when
I lived there, and I miss it incredibly a lot of the time. (And I know it's
not just LA that's metamorphosed into practially a third-world country.)
But I will *not* let fear or intimidation keep me from going back there
from time to time and seeing my old friends and enjoying what positive
things the city still has to offer. I certainly don't go looking for
violence when I'm there, but I'm going to be as responsibly prepared as
possible should something arise.

I believe that being part of a responsible community is definitely one of
the answers to surviving these potential changes. But, let me tell you
something: we moved to a small mountain community four years ago and I feel
much less "safe" here because it *is* full of the gun nut survivalist types
that are just waiting for a reason to tell somebody to go ahead and make
their day. The neighborhood I lived in in the Hollywood Hills was peopled
with residents who wanted to work together to make it a better place for
all to live. There was a true spirit of "community" there--highly unusual
for such a metropolitan area--but there nevertheless. And it's shown me
that, while it might be best to leave the urban areas for safer ground,
community can exist (albeit perhaps just in pockets) in the city, and that
the location of your chosen community may not be nearly as important as the
residents who populate it.

That's why I'm glad to have the opportunity to participate in this forum.
Originally I thought I had lucked out when I discovered how wonderful the
neighborhood was I had chosen in LA back in the early 80s. Now, I know that
I chose it for a reason. I truly learned the definition of community. And
now I feel like I have entered another equally wonderful community, virtual
though it may be, here. While we all may disagree about things from time to
time, I feel that we all can learn from each other and be there for each
other if and when the time comes.

Okay, I'm done. 

...Melin

Forum:  Encounters+                     Section:  Earth Chgs/Prophecy
Subj :  Preparing for the future
To   :  Chris Malcheski, 71232,360      Friday, March 24, 1995  6:49:01 PM
From :  Barbara Finney, 71573,1075      #49133

Hi guys,

   Yes the mountains here are beautiful, and the idea of a bunch of like
minds all living to gether turns me on. Barbara Finney



Forum:  Encounters+                     Section:  Earth Chgs/Prophecy
Subj :  Preparing for the future
To   :  Chris Malcheski, 71232,360      Saturday, March 25, 1995  3:47:24 AM
From :  Dean Miller/SL5_ASOP, 75110,3417#49258

Hi Chris,

 >> I wonder where we're going to hide a camper that size that isn't going
to be attacked by the first band of nasties that comes along.  <<

It's essential to be with a group of people -- and far enough away from
population(etc.) that here won't be many nasties with the resources to get
to you.  There will be easier pickings before they get to you.

Remember the story of what stopped Jesse James and his gang.  Just a bunch
of people who weren't going to allow his kind of behavior (in Northfield
Minn. -- a college town, BTW).

Dean -- from Des Moines



Forum:  Encounters+                     Section:  Earth Chgs/Prophecy
Subj :  Preparing for the future
To   :  Dean Miller/SL5_ASOP, 75110,3417Saturday, March 25, 1995  5:01:10 AM
From :  Chris Malcheski, 71232,360      #49277

Hi Dean,

>> It's essential to be with a group of people -- and far enough away from
population(etc.) that here won't be many nasties with the resources to get
to you. <<

Beverly and I discussed this yesterday and came to the conclusion that
should it come to this kind of scenario (Earth changes in full swing) we
aren't going to be afforded the luxury of an ideal situation so the best
we're going to do is to hook up with others.

-- Chris

Forum:  Encounters+                     Section:  Earth Chgs/Prophecy
Subj :  Preparing for the future
To   :  Kent Lawrence, 71621,2534       Saturday, March 25, 1995  8:21:26 PM
From :  Melinda Henderson, 73042,2151   #49477

Hi Kent:

>>Beautiful post.<<

Thank you. I'd been out of town all week on business and only had time to
just browse the message board with WinCim. Had to download the entire
thread with all the messages today and really think about how to get across
what it was I wanted to say.

>>I'm not especially proud of feeling this way.  Like Chris and Kevin and
John, I, too, would like to think that we "should" not have to resort to
arms.<<

And, I believe Thom, also: >>I think that last thing any rational person
wants is to shoot someone.<<

>>So we feel that as long as we survive the initial whatever-comes, we will
make it.  We will survive.<<

I think that's how most of us around here feel. I know that I believe after
the initial cataclysmic changes begin to occur (if, indeed they do, John)
that it will be akin to a gigantic cleansing of Mother Earth and that,
while lifestyles will be changed, it doesn't necessarily mean that the
change will be bad.

For example: The bad news is--the infrastructure might be severely damaged.
The good news is--no more sig alerts! 

>>with no Nintendo<< :-0 !

(Actually, that could be a good news kinda thing for parents. Of course,
the bad news there is that we wouldn't have *our* games, either! )

I'm *very* hopeful for a positive outcome. In the long run. It might get
kinda dicey in the short run, but I think that's what we're all really
talking about preparing for here. We feel these changes might occur, and we
*do* want to make it through, so we can continue to grow with, give to,
laugh with and love each other.

>>We'll be there.  And we hope you, and everyone else on this forum who has
the survivalist spirit, will join us.  It's a big mountaintop, and I own it
all above the treeline!<<

As time progresses, I feel that lots of us on this forum are going to be
keeping track of where everyone else is, and that someday there just might
be a great big Earth Changes Section reunion happening
somewhere...real-time, not virtual!

>>As the sign on the old greasy-spoon says, "Dew Drop Inn."<<

...you've just made me homesick. :>

...Melin





  And I would probably rather give away food and shelter, at least to those
that would die without it, before doing so.  But I will fight to the death
those who come stalking in the night just to take it away!  And just
because they did not have the foresight or ambition to prepare in advance.

Forum:  Encounters+                     Section:  Earth Chgs/Prophecy
Subj :  Preparing for the future
To   :  John W. Ratcliff, 70253,3237    Saturday, March 25, 1995  7:33:07 PM
From :  Dean Miller/SL5_ASOP, 75110,3417#49456

Hi John,

 >> I don't know if you have little children, or not.  I'm certain I would
have a much different attitude about all of this if I did not have
children.  I might be buying a cabin in Montana, with nothing but a
stockpile of food, weapons, and a modem line.  But with 4 kids, young
children, with hopes and dreams for a future, I don't consider that even an
option I wish to weigh in my mind.  <<

There are compromises that can be made.  There are many places that are
perfectly viable if no catastrophe takes place AND have a good chance of
being around if everything except the complete and total destruction
occurs.

You can plan for both.

You can plan to NOT be living in a area the USGS says are unsafe areas.
What areas are unsafe according to USGS?

 Coastal Pacific (it's actually more specific)
 Salt Lake City-Boise-Yellowstone Park
 Memphis-St. Louis (probably Little Rock)
 Buffalo-Rochester
 Boston-NYC

Using the predictions, I would add:

 Coastal New England from Baltimore northward to the St. Lawrence.
 St. Louis south to the Gulf (the Gulf might expand to St. Louis)
 Southern US from South Carolina across to Texas
 Lower Michigan and Chicago-Cleveland strip.
 Niagara Falls-Lake Ontario-St. Lawrence River (includes southern Canada)

As you know, some predictions are worse.

You might notice I didn't mention many places in the US.  These places
could be viable.

However, even without any earth changes style cataclysms, conventional
forecasters paint a pretty grim economic picture.  They are predicting many
more riots in cities due to a major economic downturn.  So living in a big
city or any place close to a big city isn't prudent.

If you're extremely rich and have your own plane with several homes, you
wouldn't have a big problem with an economic downturn (assuming you saw it
coming).  But most of us will have to be prepared in advance -- either with
knowledge and skills or with proper location (hopefully, both).

 >> It's DEPRESSING.  <<

Depends on how you look at it.  If you want to be depressed, there are lots
of choices available.

Dean -- from Des Moines



Forum:  Encounters+                     Section:  Earth Chgs/Prophecy
Subj :  Preparing for the future
To   :  John W. Ratcliff, 70253,3237    Saturday, March 25, 1995  9:31:29 PM
From :  Melinda Henderson, 73042,2151   #49508

John:

>>You, and everyone else, seem to be suggesting that I should abandon all
hope.<<

*No*...that's _not_ what we're suggesting at all. Well, maybe I shouldn't
speak for everyone else, but I certainly  would not suggest you abandon all
hope.

When I think of preparing for "possible" (and I really do emphasize the
word _*POSSIBLE*_) earth/politial/social/economic changes, I think of what
can I do now, that doesn't totally disrupt my current lifestyle, that will
cause me to be prepared for events that *might* transpire in the future?
Even if the cataclysms don't come to pass, maybe some of the things I have
done or learned might come in handy in today's world.

In fact, they already have. I was a virtual prisoner in my own home for
several days a few years ago due to a major snowstorm. My husband was out
of town and by the time he got back, all the roads into town were closed,
even to 4WD. Aside from plotting on how I could kill Scott for having
"deserted" me before the storm set in and make it seem like and accident so
I could collect the insurance money and buy a condo in Palm Springs, I had
to deal with having no power for days while the snow continually piled up.
I had to bag and tag the freezer food and place it in the snow outside,
rotate the fridge food to the freezer, keep the area in front of the front
door relatively free from snow so I *could* get out if I had to, trek down
to the neighbors to touch base with them a couple of times a day, and
basically try not to lose my sanity and fall victim to cabin fever. But I
didn't have to worry about food or water or heat or batteries because I had
my earthquake supplies at the ready and plenty of firewood already chopped.
It wasn't an earthquake and it certainly wasn't a disaster in the true
sense, but it surely was a pain in the a** to deal with. That episode was
only for five days...kind of a mini-drill for the future, if necessary. It
made me *real* glad that I at least had the necessary food and supplies
around so I was able to function.

I've been trained for emergency response by the L.A. Fire Department. I can
coordinate triage and search-and-rescue teams if I have to. I'm certified
in CPR...haven't had to use it yet (thank God), but it doesn't take an
earth change event to cause the need for that to arise. I carry an
emergency backpack and a hard hat and hiking shoes and food and water in my
car at all times. Wouldn't leave the house without the stuff. I don't
believe I'm "attracting" an earthquake to happen just because I have some
common sense to be prepared for living on the fault line (literally...I
cross the San Andreas fault every time I go down the hill). I didn't do all
this preparation and take all this training because I believe in doom and
gloom. I did it because I *didn't* want to "abandon all hope" that
something horrible might happen and there would be no way to survive it. I
did it because I believed in my friends and neighbors and valued my
community and my life as I knew it and wanted it to continue. I still do.

Even if every single doomsday prophecy does come to pass, I do not believe
that means it's the end of the world. It might be the end of the world as
we know it, but I don't think that that's necessarily a bad thing. I
believe there will be a beautiful light at the end of that tunnel. I do not
see all these "potential" earth changes as all doom and gloom...I see them
as a passageway to a new kind of civilization...one where, out of necessity
for survival, we will have learned to (Oh, God, I'm actually going to quote
Rodney King here) "all get along." One where we really will "give peace a
chance." One where maybe Mother Earth just farts a little now and then,
instead of having major convulsions repeatedly.

And, hey, if we never do have another fire, flood, quake, hurricane, war,
stock market crash, drive-by shooting, drug overdose, unplanned teen
pregnancy etc. etc. etc. ...that would be the most wonderful thing on
earth. But, during my journey to become prepared I've surely made some good
friends along the way, become more self-sufficient and renewed my spiritual
quest, so I really couldn't consider it wasted time. I have not joined the
currently fashionable "cult-of-the-month club" ready to participate in mass
suicide should Dean give the word. And I'm certainly not walking around
depressed every day thinking about what "might" happen. I really and truly
do remain as hopeful for our future as I think you do.

...Melin

Forum:  Encounters+                     Section:  Earth Chgs/Prophecy
Subj :  Preparing for the future
To   :  Howard Davis, 70367,3461        Wednesday, March 22, 1995  2:34:27 AM
From :  Chris Malcheski, 71232,360      #48220

Howard,

Hope you don't mind a little bitching to round out your evening... 

Consider this seriously.  If you're in a position to have to use that .357,
do you honestly think it in itself is going to be enough to defend you?  If
you need it at all, odds are that it won't be one isolated incident that
requires your defending yourself with firearms.  It'll be whordes of people
coming to get what you have, wave after wave of them.  It's not a bad idea
to have one on hand in case the need really comes up but I suppose it
starts to bug me when people's entire definition of "surviving"
automatically moves to shooting others, before any other method of
surviving has a chance, before anything is even known.  Just that people
resonate with that so strongly before any need has even arisen.

I would imagine that removing yourself to a remote location will be a
thousand times more effective than having all the firepower in the world in
an area where you need it.

-- Chris

Forum:  Encounters+                     Section:  Earth Chgs/Prophecy
Subj :  Preparing for the future
To   :  Chris Malcheski, 71232,360      Friday, March 24, 1995 10:09:20 PM
From :  Melinda Henderson, 73042,2151   #49201

Chris:

>>whordes<<

A horde of whores?

...Melin

Forum:  Encounters+                     Section:  Earth Chgs/Prophecy
Subj :  Preparing for the future
To   :  Richard Roop, 74034,3207        Wednesday, March 22, 1995  6:01:29 AM
From :  Mark Hochman, 73320,2317        #48273

Hi Richard,

>I am interested in other people's views, opinions and ideas about taking
actions now to prepare for earth changes, economic changes and restruction
of the US government...based on current prophecies,  beliefs and
expectations.<

I can only speak for myself, but I have moved into an area that has a is a
fairly small community.  I didn't move here because of any belief in earth
changes however, I moved because I wanted a different life style than what
I was used to growing up in LA, Ca.

However looking at it from the viewpoint that these changes may actually
happen, I believe I'm in a good position for making through whatever may
come this way.

The most important thing will be the togetherness of the community.  The
only way anyone is going to get through this is though cooperation.
Survivalists aren't going to make it.  Their hording of guns and supplies
will attract others of like mind to them and the ensuing results.  They
will remain isolated for as long as they survive.  Those who are part of a
strong community will be protected from this sort of thing, as isolated
people with guns will not attack a whole community.

Since I've been living in my area I've been getting into growing my own
food, as much as I can.  I setup raised bed gardens here and have had quite
a success.  Last year we were able to can about 40 quarts of tomatoes and
ten quarts of carrots.  Along with other veggies.  A good book on setting
up a system is The 60 Minute Garden by Jeff Ball.  You want to find out as
much as you can about growing food and food preservation methods.  It would
also be handy, of course if you had access to a nearby source of water.  We
live about a hundred yards from a stream.  Also get up a supply of
non-motorized tools.

Another thing we did was we setup an emergency kit.  Cost about $100 or so.
 The govt. and fire departments have info on what you may want to have in a
kit that you can have at home and in the car.  Plenty of batteries and
things that can run on them, ie radios, flashlites, etc.  I've been
considering setting up solar power panels that will recharge large marine
batteries.

Lots of things you can do.  Just think about what you would need if you
were to go camping in a remote area for a month.  Contact a camping store!

Mark

Forum:  Encounters+                     Section:  Earth Chgs/Prophecy
Subj :  Preparing for the future
To   :  All                             Tuesday, March 21, 1995  6:42:06 AM
From :  Richard Roop, 74034,3207        #47854

Aloha!

I am interested in other people's views, opinions and ideas about taking
actions now to prepare for earth changes, economic changes and restruction
of the US government...based on current prophecies,  beliefs and
expectations.

Richard

Forum:  Encounters+                     Section:  Earth Chgs/Prophecy
Subj :  Preparing for the future
To   :  Richard Roop, 74034,3207        Tuesday, March 21, 1995  9:15:05 AM
From :  Lilith, 73664,2411              #47905


Richard;

Be sure you have plenty of MRE's, water stored and tobacco, coffee, etc.
for bartering, and lastly lots of ammunition for your weapons.

Lilith

Forum:  Encounters+                     Section:  Earth Chgs/Prophecy
Subj :  Preparing for the future
To   :  Richard Roop, 74034,3207        Tuesday, March 21, 1995  9:32:14 AM
From :  John W. Ratcliff, 70253,3237    #47916

Richard,

I'm preparing by watching lots of TV, especially Beavis and Butthead and
the OJ Simpson trial.

John

Forum:  Encounters+                     Section:  Earth Chgs/Prophecy
Subj :  Preparing for the future
To   :  Melinda Henderson, 73042,2151   Sunday, March 26, 1995 12:11:10 PM
From :  Jeannie, 75773,1442             #49660

Melin:
I agree with you 100%!
You've been through an earthquake..I've been thorugh Hurricanes..Camille
and Fredrick. I feel those of us that live or have lived in disaster prone
areas incorporate "emergency preparedness" so normally in our everyday
lives..it's just a knee-jerk action not reaction.
Having "survived" a mini diasaster... Most injuries were caused
by the people that can't change a light bulb..using a "chain saw" for the
first time. Then..the stories abounded about the men..going up on the roof
to make repairs who tied themselves to their cars..only to have someone in
the family crank 'er up and leave dragging them off the roof. . 
I found ..People were more than eager to help eachother.We lost our home to
Fredrick. Oak tree split and came through the center of the house. I met
neighbors I had never even seen. They all wanted to help and share what
they had with us. The negative things I witnessed were..The grocery stores
that had power and could open..had their employee's armed with price guns
in hand..tripling the prices at the speed of light. Tractor trailer rigs
filled with bags of ice..selling a $1.00 bag for $5.00. Tractor trailer
rigs..pulling in with loads of generators, others filled with oil..chain
saws.
However; it seemed the good outweighed the bad. The "people" all became one
unified force. Disasters do not differentiate rich..poor..We were all in
the soup.It seems the biggest problem we face in the probability of these
disasters happening..is that most of us are 20th century creatures of
comfort. It's beyond simplistic to say that our dear ancestors would have
not had the same level of alarm over an impending disaster that  we have.
They ate from their own gardens or our "American Farmlands", they milked
their own cows..gathered eggs from their chickens..built their own homes,
made their own clothing. Could we be experiancing just fear of
"conveniance"?
We could and should approach self-sufficiency as a positive experiance..if
for no other reason than to retain those very skills that brought us into
the techonolgy we are enjoying now. Take part of your precious landscaped
yard and get out there with your kids and plant a garden! Get in the garage
with your kids and "Build" something!Learn how to dehydrate and store what
you grow! Learn how to make candles..learn how to sew. Get the kids
together , unplug the TV, and read some good books with them. Read and
learn how to "do" projects.Learn about "natural healing". Get the
neighborhood involved! In the interim..we might even cure some of societies
ills..like pulling families back together..communities back together. In
doing so we are not just" preparing for an eminent disaster" and being
negative..just getting back to basics and getting to "know our fellow man
on a "up close and personal" gut level again...starting with those..we
chose to bring into this world. I can hear the unanimous groan out there of
"who in the hell has time". Well we sure are spending allot of time and
money in and on counceling and legal fees unraveling our "upscale"..90's
lifestyles we hold in such high esteem. Re-learnng basic skills is not
negative..it's just covering your "own" As*. and teaching your family
members how to do the same. It's just perception...If the big one does hit
us..the first thing out of our kids mouths will be..Dad..Mom.."what" do we
do? Hope we have answers!
Whew..I need a vacation.....
Jeannie